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The The Sound and The
The Fury
Interview with
Matt Johnson of The The
Although the British band The The has been around for nearly a decade
and has put out three records, they are not very well known in the
United States. More appropriately, "he" is not very well
known. Because the lyrics and the musical arrangements of The The,
the venom and the humor, the sound and the fury are all the design
of one person: Matt Johnson. But Johnson’s anonymity is by
choice. He rarely gives interviews, preferring his work to speak
for itself.
Johnson accepts the necessary role
of publicity to sell records ("Otherwise you just get starved
of oxygen"), but he doesn’t pander to the process. His
main objective is a good record, and he assembles the role players
he sees fit to help him achieve his goal. And because The The is
basically a studio band, Johnson has been able to enlist the talents
of a steady stream of remarkable musicians. The list includes Wire,
Neneh Cherry, Jools Holland and David Johansen, among others. He
works consistently with drummer Dave Palmer, whose crisp stickwork
supported albums by bands like Roxy Music and ABC. Johnson’s
latest release, Mind Bomb, features ex-Smiths guitarist Johnny
Marr and includes a duet with Sinead O’Connor as well as the
backing of a 40-voice choir.
The unique nature of The The is not
limited to its structure as the Matt Johnson one-man show. Johnson’s
choice of subject matter sets him apart from the rest of the pop
world as well. He sings of Britain’s decline into a third-world
nation, religious hypocrisy and the escalating arms race, loneliness
and isolation in a world full of avarice. His crises are both intensely
personal and insightfully political, certainly not exactly chart-burning
stuff.
Johnson does draw fire from less visionary critics who call him
gloomy, preachy and bombastic, but he’s actually not the pop
prophet of The Apocalypse, as some would have you believe. He is
a conceptualist and a perfectionist who holds true to his ideals.
From his solo 1980 effort on 4AD, Burning Blue Soul, to The
The’s three LPs (1982’s gentle, unforgettable and hypnotic Soul Mining, the snappy crises of 1986, detailed in Infected,
and the current Mind Bomb), Johnson has produced musical
testaments of excellence.
The The has finally jelled into a
tight quartet, with bassist James Eller joining Johnson, Palmer
and Marr, and are now embarking on their first large-scale tour
covering four continents. Matt Johnson is looking with a hopeful
eye to the future, critics be damned.
Village View: Is it a wry sense
of humor that inspired you to name your band The The?
Matt Johnson: Yeah, wry sense
of humor. People miss my sense of humor…[they] think I’m
very poker-faced. It’s not the case at all. There’s a
lot of humor there [in my music]. You couldn’t exist with such
intense subject matter without having a sense of humor.
VV: How did you and Johnny Marr
come to work together?
MJ: Before he formed The Smiths,
he was actually going to join The The in 1981. It didn’t happen,
but we knew each other from then and admired each other’s work
from a distance. I was looking to put together a permanent band
and he was looking for a permanent band. It was just a natural move
for both of us.
VV: Why did you wait until your
third album to step into the public eye? Did the growing awareness
of environmental problems help influence your decision?
MJ: Various reasons, really.
Also, I’m not getting any younger. I’m 27 now and I’ve
been making records for about ten years. Throughout the eighties
it was more of a low-key approach. I like to publicize my work,
but I’ve always tried to stay clear of the selling of me-self
as a personality. I would never have me picture on the [album] sleeve.
I just decided I’m doing a world tour, so [I] might as well
come out and make a stronger presentation.
VV: Do you donate any money
from your album sales to any causes?
MJ: Only to the "Feed
Matt Johnson" cause [laughs]. I give checks here and there
to environmentalism and ecological groups, but I’m not into
publicizing it. I’m a bit suspicious of people that go around
publicizing [such things].
I’m
obsessed with the idea of strength, but strength to overcome yourself,
not strength over other people.
Your work is as carefully crafted
lyrically as it is musically. What reading material do you enjoy?
MJ: I like reading mysticism,
religion, The Bible, The Koran and philosophy, spiritualist stuff…I
just read [Nietzsche’s] Thus Spake Zarathustra
last year, heavy duty stuff [like] the superman and overcoming yourself…I’m
fascinated, well, obsessed, with the idea of strength. But strength
to overcome yourself — not strength over other people —
the spirit overcoming the body and particular desires.
VV: How do you find your spiritual
truths and what voices do you trust?
MJ: it’s difficult to
sustain it. I’ve tried things like meditation…to attain
spiritual goals and stuff, but it’s really difficult ‘cause
you’re constantly distracted. I like to spend a lot of time
alone if I can…I’ve got a little place in Southern Europe,
which is quite peaceful. Just being on your own and just thinking,
I think that’s one thing people don’t do enough of. They’re
distracted by the TV or by other people or by trivialities. It’s
really important, actually, to enjoy your own company.
VV: But it’s rare to find
people who actually enjoy themselves.
MJ: I know, but when you’re
a little kid, I mean, children love their own company. They sit
and play for hours by themselves. But as you become older, you tend
to become frightened of yourself, frightened of loneliness. It’s
only other people that make you feel lonely.
VV: Since you have been reading
Nietzsche, what do you think about Nietzsche’s philosophy on
the evolutionary spiritual stages of man: first he is a camel, then
a lion and then a child?
MJ: I can’t remember the
exact wording, but in The Bible it says that the way to the kingdom
of heaven is becoming like a child. It is when your sensitivity
is so heightened: when you’re a child, you just pick up atmospheres,
you sense things [and] it feels great. As you get older, your senses
just get duller and duller and more narrow-minded. You just have
this impression of the world created by this particular circumstance.
I think that it’s a real struggle to try and keep your channels
open. One way, of course, it by taking hallucinogens, drugs or whatever,
but I think there must be other ways, just by meditation or just
constantly re-evaluating. Having a healthy amount of skepticism
but not becoming cynical or bitter.
Just being
on your own [is] one thing people don’t do enough of. It’s
really important, actually, to enjoy your own company.
VV: Have you
always felt things so intensely?
MJ: Pretty much. Ever since
I was a little boy, I liked to pick up atmospheres and light, to
drink up as much as possible, you know, keep me eyes open…I’m
very fortunate in that I’m able to express me-self and I think
I’m speaking on behalf of a lot of people. But I think most
people do feel things intensely. Tragedy is [that] a lot of people
just hold it in and hold it in and have no way of expressing it.
VV: When you go "soul mining,"
what tools do you take with you?
MJ: None. Some people go dabbling
in the occult. I’m completely against that, spiritually. All
you need is a positive frame of mind. I don’t believe in relying
on any tools at all. Even on stage now I just wear old boots, black
jeans and a t-shirt. I’ve got really short hair. I don’t
believe in props or gimmicks either in me work or in my personal
searching, either. It’s just you. What’s ever in your
mind, that’s what you’re like.
VV: What can we expect from The
The in the 1990s?
MJ: Every time I say things
in print, I come over as arrogant. I don’t mean to be arrogant,
but I think you can expect five of the best albums of the 90s from
The The.
VV: Let’s say you awoke to
find yourself on a battlefield, the earth scorched from horizon
to horizon. You are badly wounded and dying and only have a couple
of minutes to live. You notice two children who seemed to have survived
this holocaust. What is your last message to them?
MJ: Buy lots of The The records
[laughs]. No, I would write…[pauses, then suddenly] I know:
some of you will live, some of you will die, but remember that nothing
in this world can kill you inside. [This is one of his lyrics from
the song "Good Morning Beautiful"]
The The will perform at The Roxy,
August 16, before embarking on a full-scale American tour in October.
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